hi the dutch-moroccans !!!!

N

nadouch

New Member
Hi everybody,

I am French from Chleuh parents, born in Agadir.
I would love to have a discussion with you guys because you were born in Holland from Moroccan parents. Just, you know, to try to compare with our situation in France.

I am sorry 'cause I do not speak Dutch but I can write in English and German.

So is it better to be Franco-moroccan or Dutch-moroccan ?? What would be your opinion??
 
Hi Nadouch,

There are about 350.000 Moroccans here. We have also people from the south: Idan Ugnedif, Ida Usemlal, Achtuken, Tiznit, Ayt Baamrane, Ouarzazate, Agadir and the western High Atlas.

But they are a minority, some 10%. And they are doing very well. You should visit us here some day. It is very nice!

Timensiwin

[ Edité par Tafart le 30/10/2005 6:55 ]
 
I heard that I'm Amsterdam is a nice place, are there also many arabophone Moroccans like me in Holland ?
 
Most of Moroccans in Hollande come from the Rif. Some say that a lot of problems come from them because they are "hard" (not my opinion).
 
I attended to a litterature meeting between Moroccans authors and Nederlands authors in the French Institute of Rabat(Abdelkader Benali, Stitou : both of them born in the Rif): I was really deceived
 
agerzam said:
Most of Moroccans in Hollande come from the Rif. Some say that a lot of problems come from them because they are "hard" (not my opinion).
Click to expand...


Azul,

The majority of Moroccans in Holland are from the rif, Northern Morocco. But Agerzam, they are not HARD, they are STUPID, with all due respect;)
 
nadouch said:
Hi everybody,

I am French from Chleuh parents, born in Agadir.
I would love to have a discussion with you guys because you were born in Holland from Moroccan parents. Just, you know, to try to compare with our situation in France.

I am sorry 'cause I do not speak Dutch but I can write in English and German.

So is it better to be Franco-moroccan or Dutch-moroccan ?? What would be your opinion??
Click to expand...


Azul,

I am born in Amsterdam, I consider myself to be an Dutch-Amazigh. My roots are in Agadir. The Iselhiyan/Isoussiyan community in Holland is doing very well and I am very proud of them:) The Morrocan community in Holland is being a "victim" of the negative actions that are caused by the majority Moroccans in Holland; this majority is from the RIF.

I think that there is a lot of racism in France towards North-Africans, the Moroccan/Algerian youth does not get much chances to develop themselves in a positive way or direction, so they end up doing criminal activities and other stuff.

In that case it is better to be a Dutch-Moroccan, because of the possibilities and oopertunities the Moroccan youth has and gets in Holland, there is less racism and people respect you. But the majority Moroccans in Holland (most from the Rif) does not consider that, so they are being very rebellous, they don't know how to deal with freedom:rolleyes:

So I prefer that the Iselhiyan/Isoussiyan community in France moves to Holland and the Irifiyan community in Holland moves back to France; so they can really experience what it's like to be discriminated, then they really will appreciate the Dutch System.
Most of those guys need a good AKURAY, that is all:cool:

Tannmirt
 
Do you know the writer Abdelkader Benali ? I really disliked the way He spoke during the meeting, a little bit extremist: more jealous of nederland language more the " Bataves" themselves ..And he got the nerve to say that Morrocans don't have any language!!
 
On the whole Benali is right. The Moroccans, both arabophones and berberophones, don't have a language. Like Abdellah Bounfour once noticed: "les marocains ne parlent pas. Ils balbutient" (the moroccans can't talk, they just jabber).

Benali talked probably about his experiences with his native dialect tarifit wich is still a terra incognita. But he must have a lacune in his knowledge about other Berber variants which are very well adapted.

An other thing, please avoid social criticism as people don't always appreciate it even it is good for
the sake of everyone. It is a moral dilemma: who to deal with people maltraited by time?
 
Our language is very rich, and our oral patrimony is the living proof of that. So I'm astonished when someone say that we don't have language: it's all wrong! It concern maybe those who emigrated to other countries and those who integrated french school in Morocco..There's also the problem of education
Besides, I advice Abdellah Bounfour to take a trip back to Morocco: to visit popular places and rural areas, to check if Morrocans "balbutient" as he said
 
What Bounfour is talking about is a spoken and writen language, not the language of the books, of the State. of the elite like the Arabic fusha. Few people can realy read and write in their mother tongue (both tamazight or darija). That is what he means by saying people dont't have a language.

By the way Bounfour is a Moroccan linguist. He masters very well the language issues in Morocco. You can read his book: Le neoud de la langue. Langue litterature et société au Maghreb. Edition Edisud 1997.
 
msg

Hi nadouch

i READ YOUR MSG TO DUTCH IMAZIGHN AND I WOULD LIKE TO GIVE U MY OPPINION CONCERNING THE MATTER .U KNOW NADOUC ? STICKIN TO ONES IDENTITY IS THE BEST SOLUTION CAUSE WHATEVER U CALL UR SELF U WON4T CHANGE.I THINK BEING AMAZIGH FROM NORTH AFRICA IS BETTER THAN SEPERATING OUR SELVES BY THE SO CALLED DUTCH?FRENCH?GERMAN..............ANYWAY AYOUZ FOR STICKING TO UR IDETITY.WE SHOUL PRACTISE OUR LGE TO MAKE IT SURVIVE AND RICH.


HASSAN
click_mars18@hotmail.com
 
answer

Asmun Amazigh said:
Azul,

I am born in Amsterdam, I consider myself to be an Dutch-Amazigh. My roots are in Agadir. The Iselhiyan/Isoussiyan community in Holland is doing very well and I am very proud of them:) The Morrocan community in Holland is being a "victim" of the negative actions that are caused by the majority Moroccans in Holland; this majority is from the RIF.

I think that there is a lot of racism in France towards North-Africans, the Moroccan/Algerian youth does not get much chances to develop themselves in a positive way or direction, so they end up doing criminal activities and other stuff.

In that case it is better to be a Dutch-Moroccan, because of the possibilities and oopertunities the Moroccan youth has and gets in Holland, there is less racism and people respect you. But the majority Moroccans in Holland (most from the Rif) does not consider that, so they are being very rebellous, they don't know how to deal with freedom:rolleyes:

So I prefer that the Iselhiyan/Isoussiyan community in France moves to Holland and the Irifiyan community in Holland moves back to France; so they can really experience what it's like to be discriminated, then they really will appreciate the Dutch System.
Most of those guys need a good AKURAY, that is all:cool:

Tannmirt
Click to expand...





hi asmun amazigh


What u mentioned make me feel that there 're still Imazighen all over the world.So go on and ayouz nek aguma amazigh.But iwould like to tell u that rif's people 're our brothers .we should not neglect them and we should not behave in that way sir .If rif Imazighen behave in that way ,why we don't or u don't try to convance them to express themselves in a peaceful way .we wanna be united .u know that's wot anti-Tamazight guys want.we should not fight against our relatives otherwise we will have sivil wars...............SO PLZ WE iMAZIGHEN LET4S UNIFY OUR SELVES FROM EGYPT TO THE OCEAN
HASSAN
click_mars18@hotmail.com
 
Tafart said:
What Bounfour is talking about is a spoken and writen language, not the language of the books, of the State. of the elite like the Arabic fusha. Few people can realy read and write in their mother tongue (both tamazight or darija). That is what he means by saying people dont't have a language.

By the way Bounfour is a Moroccan linguist. He masters very well the language issues in Morocco. You can read his book: Le neoud de la langue. Langue litterature et société au Maghreb. Edition Edisud 1997.
Click to expand...


Indeed, we have few books in darija and tamazight, but I don't agree when he say that we don't have spoken language: our oral patrimony(in darija and amazigh) is the living proof of it.
 
click83 said:
hi asmun amazigh


What u mentioned make me feel that there 're still Imazighen all over the world.So go on and ayouz nek aguma amazigh.But iwould like to tell u that rif's people 're our brothers .we should not neglect them and we should not behave in that way sir .If rif Imazighen behave in that way ,why we don't or u don't try to convance them to express themselves in a peaceful way .we wanna be united .u know that's wot anti-Tamazight guys want.we should not fight against our relatives otherwise we will have sivil wars...............SO PLZ WE iMAZIGHEN LET4S UNIFY OUR SELVES FROM EGYPT TO THE OCEAN
HASSAN
click_mars18@hotmail.com
Click to expand...



Azul,

You are right, but unfortunately those Imazighen n Rif cannot be convinced. You as an Ashelhi consider those Rif people as your brothers, they don't. They consider Iselhiyan and Isoussiyan as their enemies and they do not want any advice coming from us. I think that Imazighen N Rif should unify themselves first, because their community is INSIDE a big discriminating MESS:eek:



We do our best to unify, check this: http://www.souss.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5957


www.tamaynut.nl

Asmun Amazigh
 
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